Upcoming AAA/AA CRPGs or story-based RPGs (updated 15/04/2025)

[Gladius Legis]

There is no choice for your character to figure out that the guy you are pursuing isn't the real baddie and act accordingly, even though as a player you figured it out ages ago

It's been a long time since I've actually played it, but I do not recall it being portrayed in a way that would make sense for your character to know who it is before you ever got there. That guy who wasn't a "real baddie" was still collecting the same exact thing you were after at that stage in the game, and walking around with demons and devils and killing people and raiding villages to get those.

It was rather clumsily telegraphed, to be sure, but I've seen far worse examples of what you're describing. It also doesn't make the whole campaign bad as you suggest.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I do not recall it being portrayed in a way that would make sense for your character to know who it is before you ever got there

It certainly does. Especially if you are playing a high int character. And if the PC doesn’t figure it out then Sand should.

It also doesn't make the whole campaign bad as you suggest

Yeah it does. It makes it a frustrating “but that’s not what I want to do at all!” Experience. It’s like watching Sixth Sense when you notice the protagonist died in the first scene.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Yeah it does. It makes it a frustrating “but that’s not what I want to do at all!” Experience. It’s like watching Sixth Sense when you notice the protagonist died in the first scene.

I figured out KOTOR's big reveal well before it happened in-game. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy how it unfolded.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I figured out KOTOR's big reveal well before it happened in-game. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy how it unfolded.

That’s because the knowledge does not affect your course of action. Whereas in NWN2 it’s ridiculous that you cannot try to communicate with the guy who is clearly pursuing the same objective as the PC.

 

[Gladius Legis]

Whereas in NWN2 it’s ridiculous that you cannot try to communicate with the guy who is clearly pursuing the same objective as the PC.

But when does the game itself actually tell you that he's doing that before you even meet him? The game at that point tells you he's pursuing the shards, sure, but it doesn't tell you what he's doing it for. And he's doing it with a bunch of demons and devils at his side while murdering people in their mansions and raiding villages.

Also of those murderous acts, you only catch him in person in one of those, as I recall. The others you get there well after the fact.

Also at that point, in game (i.e. without taking the opening cinematic into account), your character doesn't even know that guy is the same dude whose haven you're going into for help on those shards.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But when does the game itself actually tell you that he's doing that before you even meet him? The game at that point tells you he's pursuing the shards, sure, but it doesn't tell you what he's doing it for. And he's doing it with a bunch of demons and devils at his side while murdering people in their mansions and raiding villages.

Also of those murderous acts, you only catch him in person in one of those, as I recall. The others you get there well after the fact.

The PC can be evil, the PC can be a warlock and consort with demons. The PC can be a murder hobo. "This guy is doing bad stuff" doesn't tell you anything about what side he is on.

Also at that point, in game (i.e. without taking the opening cinematic into account), your character doesn't even know that guy is the same dude whose haven you're going into for help on those shards.

The PC has a brain (and intelligence of 18 is supposed to be a super-genius). They should be able to piece things together. Instead they are forced into plot-stupidity.

 

[Gladius Legis]

The PC has a brain (and intelligence of 18 is supposed to be a super-genius). They should be able to piece things together. Instead they are forced into plot-stupidity.

Based on what information, though? Or more specifically and importantly, what information the PC has access to? The PC has only seen this guy once in person before entering his haven. The PC knows of a name of a certain person that would have information on what they're seeking, which is why they are entering that guy's haven, but to that point in the game would have no way of knowing that the guy who has been killing people in their mansions is the same guy of that name.

The player is simply given far more information than the PC is privy to. Your complaint would be valid if the PC was privy to that information, but the PC isn't. It's a clumsy telegraph, to be sure, and even an annoying bit of misdirection in terms of pure storytelling, but forced railroading it is not.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Based on what information, though? Or more specifically and importantly, what information the PC has access to? The PC has only seen this guy once in person before entering his haven. The PC knows of a name of a certain person that would have information on what they're seeking, which is why they are entering that guy's haven, but to that point in the game would have no way of knowing that the guy who has been killing people in their mansions is the same guy of that name.

The player is simply given far more information than the PC is privy to. Your complaint would be valid if the PC was privy to that information, but the PC isn't. It's a clumsy telegraph, to be sure, and even an annoying bit of misdirection in terms of pure storytelling, but forced railroading it is not.

There is a huge amount that an intelligent person can piece together from minimal information - Sherlock Holmes was based on a real person (Dr Bell). And you don’t need to know any details about the guy’s identity to realise that talking to him has to be the top priority. Certain NPCs are quite obviously lying. It’s not enough to claim genre blindness - the PC is written as a gullible idiot. The game doesn’t even let you look for clues or ask any sensible questions of witnesses. All things I would expect to do as a matter of course in a tabletop game.

 

[Gladius Legis]

There is a huge amount that an intelligent person can piece together from minimal information - Sherlock Holmes was based on a real person (Dr Bell). And you don’t need to know any details about the guy’s identity to realise that talking to him has to be the top priority. Certain NPCs are quite obviously lying. It’s not enough to claim genre blindness - the PC is written as a gullible idiot. The game doesn’t even let you look for clues or ask any sensible questions of witnesses. All things I would expect to do as a matter of course in a tabletop game.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.

For one, your PC knows the name of someone you're supposed to talk to. Your PC knows that a guy by that name has information on what you are seeking. And your PC is indeed acting on that little bit of information by going to his haven. Your PC just doesn't know – and has no way of knowing in campaign – that the guy by that name is the same one that has been killing people in their mansions.

Witnesses? The guy teleports at will into mansions. What witnesses are going to see that? And only a few people in all of Neverwinter have heard the name of the guy you're seeking out to begin with, and all they know is that he was once a court wizard. Hell, even his own descendant who you're traveling with has very limited memory of him; she hasn't seen him since she was a small child and otherwise only knows about him at all from stories her parents told her.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sorry, I'm just not seeing it.

Sure, I quite accept that. The thing about railroads is you can’t see the rails until you want to go in a different direction.